Why should Moroccans learn Dutch?

[mister2002]

Moroccan immigrants in the Netherlands are obliged to learn the Dutch language. Under tough new laws, they can be fined if they don't learn it fats enough. If they want to become a Dutch citizen, they must learn the language, and Dutch history. This is because politicians like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Rita Verdonk, Geert Wilders and Pim Fortuyn say that the country should be Dutch. They say that in the Netherlands you should speak Dutch, and identify with Dutch history and values.

At least, they say that about the Moroccans. Because when it comes to business, it's a different story. Big Dutch companies like Philips and Shell do business in English. At their head offices (in Amsterdam and The Hague) English is spoken. If you don't speak good English you can't get a job at these companies, except maybe as a cleaner. In fact most internationally operating companies in the Netherlands, even the smaller ones, expect their staff to be able to speak English. There are even employment agencies in Dutch cities, that refuse to employ Dutch-speaking people! (There is a call-centre in Rotterdam that refuses to employ Dutch people even if they speak excellent English, because of their Dutch accent). Rita Verdonk and Geert Wilders never objected to that.

At the Dutch universities, people who speak Dutch can not get a degree. Almost every subject of study uses textbooks in English. Often complete courses are in English, and Dutch-speaking people are not allowed to participate, or to do written exams. And of course, without the exams you can't get a credit for the course. If a Dutch speaker wants to learn about the politics of Pim Fortuyn and Geert Wilders at the University of Amsterdam, they have to start by reading "Comparative Government and Politics. An Introduction". (That is where Wouter Bos studied incidentally, and he later worked in an English-speaking job at Shell). The political elite speaks English, and they expect each other to speak English. Rita Verdonk and Geert Wilders never objected to that.

If you already speak English, then you don't have to learn Dutch anyway. Most Americans in the Netherlands isolate themselves totally from Dutch society. They speak English at home, they watch English-language television, and they send their children to English-only international schools. The Americans are the worst, but most 'expatriates' (working for international companies and international organisations) refuse to speak Dutch, and refuse to integrate into Dutch society. They know almost nothing of Dutch history, and they could never pass a citizenship test. But Rita Verdonk and Geert Wilders seem to find that acceptable. They don't mind if an American expat, who has lived in Wassenaar for 10 years, can't say any more in Dutch than "Daank yuh well".

Ella Vogelaar, the Minister for Integration, never complained about any of this either. So why does she insist that Moroccans learn the Dutch language, learn about Dutch history, speak Dutch with their children, and watch Dutch television? Is it necessary for the Netherlands? Evidently not, since English can displace Dutch in education, business, and employment - and no-one seems to care. The problem seems to be mainly that Ella Vogelaar, and Rita Verdonk and Geert Wilders and Pim Fortuyn, and lots of their supporters, just don't like Moroccans. So why should the Moroccan immigrants take their demands seriously?

[waRm]

Yes it's not normal !!! Im agree with you !!

I think it's important for Moroccans who live in Netherland to learn Dutch (a little bit), for the "integration" for exemple (I don't like this word but I don't find an other one)
but as you say, if americans dont do that why ask it moroccans?

for me, dutch is a ugly language (it's just my opinion), and the only one country which speaks en Dutch is Netherland, so it's not good for the companies (international exchange)

I worked with dutch persons, and I think they speak english better than French people.

anyway I dont live in Netherland so I dont realy know the reality about that

[farid_h]

But if you learn dutch, you will also understand most of german, which itself can be quite handy in central european and (to a lesser degree even in) scandinavian countries...

I come from the other side: I've never learned dutch, but as a german speaker, I understand well over 90% of dutch and can (passivly, as in "listen") follow a spoken conversation in that language quite easily. But even then, I'd usually fall back to English when talking to dutch colleagues (IT guys) out of respect for them; and only use german if they are the ones proposing it.

So if you have an opportunity to learn dutch, they by all means, do it; not because some right-wing politicians request it, but for the sake of learning itself. You'll still profit from it somehow...

[Matsuzaka]

it's beyond my understanding how can you not learn the language of the country that accepted you as an immigrant , you and your family.
being American has nothing to do with being Moroccan, Americans are not planning to live in the Netherlands forever, but Moroccans are.
why compare Americans refusing to teach their children in Dutch schools to Moroccan immigrants?
America runs the world's economy...
English is the universal language, like it or not!!!
ofcourse you have to teach your kids English, you have to be that stupid not to.
but to ignore the language of the country you live in is like the hispanics ignored English.
most hispanics do the dirty jobs of America.
that's the futur for Moroccans in Holland if they refuse to learn Dutch.
as a wise man said:
when in Rome, speak as a Roman.

[farid_h]

Envoyé par Matsuzaka as a wise man said: when in Rome, speak as a Roman.

You mean Latin in today's Rome? I don't know if that'll get you hauled off to a mental health clinic by those nice white-wearing guys, or escorted to the Vatican by the Carabinieri!

[Matsuzaka]

Envoyé par farid_h You mean Latin in today's Rome? I don't know if that'll get you hauled off to a mental health clinic by those nice white-wearing guys, or escorted to the Vatican by the Carabinieri!

whatever u wanna call it dude, but for god sake, don't go around speaking darija to people cause u refuse to learn their language while living in their country.
it's none sense.

[Nébuleuse]

Envoyé par mister2002 Moroccan immigrants in the Netherlands are obliged to learn the Dutch language. Under tough new laws, they can be fined if they don't learn it fats enough. If they want to become a Dutch citizen, they must learn the language, and Dutch history. This is because politicians like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Rita Verdonk, Geert Wilders and Pim Fortuyn say that the country should be Dutch. They say that in the Netherlands you should speak Dutch, and identify with Dutch history and values. At least, they say that about the Moroccans. Because when it comes to business, it's a different story. Big Dutch companies like Philips and Shell do business in English. At their head offices (in Amsterdam and The Hague) English is spoken. If you don't speak good English you can't get a job at these companies, except maybe as a cleaner. In fact most internationally operating companies in the Netherlands, even the smaller ones, expect their staff to be able to speak English. There are even employment agencies in Dutch cities, that refuse to employ Dutch-speaking people! (There is a call-centre in Rotterdam that refuses to employ Dutch people even if they speak excellent English, because of their Dutch accent). Rita Verdonk and Geert Wilders never objected to that. At the Dutch universities, people who speak Dutch can not get a degree. Almost every subject of study uses textbooks in English. Often complete courses are in English, and Dutch-speaking people are not allowed to participate, or to do written exams. And of course, without the exams you can't get a credit for the course. If a Dutch speaker wants to learn about the politics of Pim Fortuyn and Geert Wilders at the University of Amsterdam, they have to start by reading "Comparative Government and Politics. An Introduction". (That is where Wouter Bos studied incidentally, and he later worked in an English-speaking job at Shell). The political elite speaks English, and they expect each other to speak English. Rita Verdonk and Geert Wilders never objected to that. If you already speak English, then you don't have to learn Dutch anyway. Most Americans in the Netherlands isolate themselves totally from Dutch society. They speak English at home, they watch English-language television, and they send their children to English-only international schools. The Americans are the worst, but most 'expatriates' (working for international companies and international organisations) refuse to speak Dutch, and refuse to integrate into Dutch society. They know almost nothing of Dutch history, and they could never pass a citizenship test. But Rita Verdonk and Geert Wilders seem to find that acceptable. They don't mind if an American expat, who has lived in Wassenaar for 10 years, can't say any more in Dutch than "Daank yuh well". Ella Vogelaar, the Minister for Integration, never complained about any of this either. So why does she insist that Moroccans learn the Dutch language, learn about Dutch history, speak Dutch with their children, and watch Dutch television? Is it necessary for the Netherlands? Evidently not, since English can displace Dutch in education, business, and employment - and no-one seems to care. The problem seems to be mainly that Ella Vogelaar, and Rita Verdonk and Geert Wilders and Pim Fortuyn, and lots of their supporters, just don't like Moroccans. So why should the Moroccan immigrants take their demands seriously?

Ok danke shön for this article...

but in Germany or Austria, its necessary to speak German language, for both studies and work...there are schools in English, but its private...I think...
Salam

[waRm]

it's strange to live in Netherland if we don't speak Dutch

[redao]

what about others countries (i mean arab countries), should they learn dutch too before moving to Netherland ?

[choukoukou]

i think that dutch is a ugly language !
it's not really fine to hear people speakin' dutch !