Sahara marocain

[ezgo]

Envoyé par khanfous tout ces points sont vrai... le pb est qu'ils s'appliquent au maroc aussi

c du rechauffé les uns sont pour les autres contre
j'aimerais bien entendre la voix des sahraouis
mais la vraie voix des sahraouis
ALORS messieurs comment pourrais-t-on entendre la voix des sahraouis
je vous laisse la reponse

[girondin]

il faut que le roi bouge son cul pour bien gerer les territoires du Sud et s en occuper et leur montrer qu ils sont des Marocains a part entiere.

C clair que comme ils n ont pas d avenir et aucun sou, ils vont choisir la solution Algerienne en echange d argent.

Mettez vous a leur place : pas de sou, rien, votre vie est degeulasse, et la qqun vient et vous offre del argent et une meilleure situation en echange d un soutien politique ...
C clair que vous allez accepter.

Maintenant, il est aussi vrai que le Maroc dans son integralite ne laissera pas les provinces du Sud s en aller, et s il le faut il y aura une autre marche pour defendre nos interets.

Mais sachez une chose : l enjeu reel derriere tout ca, c est le petrole. En effet, soyez logique un peu: l Algerie a du gaz et du petrol sous ses terres, mais ce gaz et ce petrole s arreterait-il COMME PAR HASARD a la frontiere avec le Maroc et le Sahara ? ca n a pas de sens !!! ca ve dire k il y a du gaz et du petrole inexploite dans les provinces du Sud et voila l enjeu ! les officiels le savent en tous cas...

[LaPaz]

Oui, Girondin...Et il y a aussi du pétrole en Mauritanie. ça me parait encore plus invraisemblable qu'il n'y en aie pas au Sahara Occidental/Marocain.

[doukal]

Envoyé par LaPaz Oui, Girondin...Et il y a aussi du pétrole en Mauritanie. ça me parait encore plus invraisemblable qu'il n'y en aie pas au Sahara Occidental/Marocain.

quand ça sent le gaz ou le petrole, en general ça éxplose.

[rabha72]

The stalemate in North Africa
TODAY'S COLUMNIST
article interessant:


By Michael Ussery
December 2, 2005


For more than 25 years, a little-known political stalemate in North Africa has forced thousands of refugees to live in desert camps. It is also home to one of the United Nations' longest and most obscure peacekeeping missions. Last week, a House International Affairs subcommittee held a hearing on the status of the area known as the Western Sahara. If the political stalemate over the Western Sahara is resolved, many believe that North Africa can turn the corner, dramatically improving the security, economy and political situation of the region.

The trouble started in 1975, when Spain decolonized the region and pulled out of the Western Sahara; Morocco then re-established its historical claim to the territory. In the Cold War environment of the day, a low-scale guerrilla war ensued between Morocco and a leftist separatist group, the Polisario Front. The Polisario was a Soviet-supported effort to destabilize America's Moroccan ally.

With the military and financial backing of Algeria, Cuba and Libya, hostilities continued until the United Nations established a ceasefire and a peacekeeping mission in the territory in 1991. For more than a decade now, the United Nations and others have been trying to figure out a final solution to the situation.

Former Secretary of State James Baker served seven years as U.N. Personal Envoy to the Western Sahara, attempting to broker a mutually agreeable resolution. Mr. Baker resigned in 2003 out of frustration for the slow-moving process, but during his tenure, a clear consensus emerged in the international community that Morocco and Algeria must bargain a reasonable compromise.

Morocco has stated repeatedly, publicly and privately, that it is prepared to meet this international demand. In fact, in the most recent public statement of Morocco's position on Western Saharan autonomy, Moroccan Foreign and Cooperation Minister Taieb Fassi Fihri stated at a Spanish conference on Sept. 26, "We are ready to negotiate autonomy at political and legal levels." To achieve this compromise, increased pressure needs to be placed on Algeria and the Polisario to move to the table and hammer out a solution. French Foreign Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy made a public statement on July 12, encouraging all parties involved to negotiate: "Like Spain and other partners, we are also convinced that a direct political dialogue between Rabat and Algiers on this question is likely to promote the settlement of the conflict."

However, Algeria continues to claim that it is not a party to the dispute. This claim is in defiance of the international community, which recognizes that without its support the Polisario would never have existed. The Polisario restricts the movement of people in the refugee camps in Algeria — keeping them in place as a means of maintaining political leverage. Without holding thousands of families in the desert, the Polisario would be irrelevant.

The benefits to resolving this matter are numerous. First and foremost, it will free the thousands of refugees who have been forced by the Polisario to live in refugee camps outside of Tindouf, Algeria, where they are kept as political pawns while many of their children are sent to Cuba for education. If given the choice, most of these people would simply vote with their feet and leave.

It will improve security by stabilizing the region. Moreover, a solution will ease the constant tension between the two major players in the region — Algeria and Morocco. North Africa's proximity to Europe, its educated workforce and history of innovation give it great promise. Indeed, many believe that a free-trade agreement among the countries in the region will materialize after the Sahara issue is resolved.

U.S. pressure for a resolution will help America's longest ally — Morocco was the first country to recognize the United States more than 200 years ago. Morocco has spent the past several years enacting an aggressive reform package, holding free elections, addressing past abuses and passing laws that dramatically increase women's rights. It is on a clear path to a democracy with a thriving civil society and a free press. But the Sahara issue still looms.

So, as Congress looks into this issue, it needs to make sure that its message is clear: The United States will provide whatever support is needed and do whatever it can to help the three primary parties in this matter negotiate a political solution. There is no alternative.

Ambassador to Morocco Michael Ussery has also served as deputy assistant secretary for Near Eastern and South Asian Affairs.

http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/200...1529-5689r.htm

[rabha72]

il y a celui-ci qui risque aussi de deranger notre ami la paz:

L'ASM soutient une famille sahraoui qui voulait revenir au Maroc

02.12.2005 | 12h06

Un père, son épouse et leurs trois enfants arrivés à Laâyoune la semaine dernière des camps de Tindouf en Algérie dans le cadre des échanges de visites familiales initiés par les Nations Unies ont refusé avant-hier de retourner chez eux préférant s’installer définitivement au Maroc auprès des leurs.

Le père issu de la tribu des Izerguiyine qui se trouve être membre de famille de trois membres de l’ASM a justifié sa décision ainsi que celle de son épouse par le fait qu’ils ont réussi à venir avec leurs enfants et rien ne peut les obliger à retourner "en enfer" comme ils ont décrit les camps de Tindouf.

Aussi, à la mère d’ajouter que dans les camps, à part la misère, les difficiles conditions de vie, l’insécurité et l’injustice, elle pouvait du jour au lendemain perdre ses enfants qui seront envoyés comme des milliers d’autres ont pu l'être durant plus de deux décennies, vers Cuba pour un vrai lavage de cerveau et diverses exploitations. Une fois finit leurs études qui durent plus de dix ans durant lesquels ils n’ont aucun moyen de retourner dans les camps visiter leurs parents, ils sont méconnaissables par leurs attitudes et comportements, éducation à la communiste et surtout ils perdent tout lien avec leur religion sacrée qu’est l’Islam. Pire un grand nombre d’entre eux de part l’éducation qu’ils reçoivent depuis leur plus jeune age se sont reconvertis au catholicisme ou même sont devenus athées.

Des éléments de la Minurso accompagnés du gouverneur Hamid Chabar (gouverneur en charge des relations avec la Minurso) se sont déplacés chez eux (des membres de l’ASM y étaient présents) pour les convaincre de retourner à Tindouf de peur que le "front Polisario" saisisse cette occasion et stoppe sa collaboration avec les Nations Unies en ce qui concerne le programme des échanges de visites familiales qui a repris la semaine dernière.

Après des heures de réticences et pourparlers, en pleurs, la famille a acceptée de prendre l’avion onusien et retourner aux camps.

L’Association le Sahara Marocain qui craint pour la vie de cette jeune famille aussitôt arrivée dans les camps de Tindouf qui sans nul doute sera victime de représailles, demande l’intervention urgente du secrétaire général de l’ONU Kofi Annan ainsi que celles des Ong internationales pour sa protection et lui permettre de revenir dans son pays le Maroc, pour s’y installer.

L’Association le Sahara Marocain qui mène son enquête concernant l’incompréhensible attitude des autorités marocaines qui ont "forcé" cette famille à retourner en Algérie publiera ultérieurement un communiqué.

Source : Communiqué de presse

[rabha72]

et encore un autre dont la neutralite sera constestee par ceux en mal de citoyennete et malheureux de voir leur pays marquer des points


Politics & Policies: Islamist radicals pose new threat in Africa

By Claude Salhani
UPI International Editor
Published November 30, 2005


WASHINGTON -- The Polisario Front - less known as the Popular Front for the Liberation of Saguia el-Hamra and Rio de Oro - a group fighting for the independence of Western Sahara could be turning to radical Islamism and international crime, warns a European intelligence analyst.

The Polisario is one of the longest running liberation movements -- still active some 30 years after the departure of the Spanish colonizer from Western Sahara. Its combat has shifted from fighting the Spaniards to fighting Morocco, who virtually annexed the northern two-thirds of the territory formerly known as the Spanish Sahara in 1976.


Following the withdrawal of Mauritania, Morocco annexed the rest of the territory in 1979. A guerrilla war with the Polisario Front contesting Rabat's sovereignty ended in 1991 when the United Nations brokered a cease-fire agreement. Yet a proposed referendum on the territory's final status has been repeatedly postponed.

As recently as the end of October the United Nations Security Council has extended the mandate of MINURSO -- the United Nations Mission for the Referendum in Western Sahara -- by six months, "despite obvious evidence that the referendum, expected to be passed since 1991 is impracticable," says Claude Moniquet of the European Strategic Intelligence and Security Center, a Brussels-based think tank specializing in terrorism.

Moniquet conducted an extensive study of the Polisario and the current situation in the region. The Brussels-based expert in terrorism fears the Polisario, initially a leftist-leaning organization formed during the Cold War, and which in the past received support from the Soviet Union, may now be turning to radical Islam. The danger is double-edged as in return for financial aide from radical Islamist groups the Polisario can offer organizations such as al-Qaida a large pool of potential recruits.

What follows are some of Moniquet's conclusions.

Following high-level U.S. intervention, the Polisario Front agreed to release several hundred Moroccan prisoners of war, some of whom had been detained for more than 30 years and who would seem to have suffered, in addition to the long detention, "massive and repeated maltreatment."

In so doing the Polisario hoped to atone for some of its wrongdoings and to bury various charges that have often been levied against it in the last 20 years. But if the actual fighting has ceased, the conflict is far from over.

Morocco, for its part, seems ready to accept a political solution that would involve broad Sahrawi independence within the Moroccan national territory. In other words, autonomy, rather than independence.

"It is clear moreover that despite its intransigence the Polisario Front represents only a fraction of the 'Sahrawi people,'" said Moniquet.

"As the United Nations and the Europeans have shown themselves to be incapable of solving the conflict, many eyes are now turning to the United States which, in the context of the 'war against terrorism' and their plan to democratize the Arab-Muslim world, has every interest in stabilizing the Maghreb," says Moniquet.

At the same time, any peace treaty must take into consideration the interests of the region's two other principal stakeholders -- Algeria and Morocco.

suites =>

[rabha72]

=> suite ...

However, the way the Polisario is evolving is giving rise to new fears says Moniquet: "Some of its combatants and leaders are turning to terrorism, radical Islamism or international crime."

Left unchecked, this could threaten the stability of the whole of Sub-Saharan Africa and in the process affect the security of several African states. This, in the long run, will have a ripple effect on Europe as well as the U.S.

So where does it all go from here? Moniquet says the international community and the U.N. should have the courage and the lucidity to recognize that the independence solution is not viable and is even impossible given the violent opposition of one of the parties. Moniquet recommends the parties involved should "take the path of a negotiated political solution."

"Algeria," says Moniquet, "should refrain from interfering in a problem that concerns Morocco and the Sahrawi population, and in which it is not a stakeholder."

In his 80-page report Moniquet states that "Countries that have recognized the SADR should realize that this entity, with no real existence or future, is more of an obstacle to any political solution than a genuine emerging nation."

The United States, goes on to say Moniquet, should use its influence to support a negotiated solution.

The Polisario, initially a very structured organization, powerful and inspired by a hybrid ideology of a crossbred Marxist-Leninist, finds itself today at a crossroad.

Several analysts believe the region offers a potential breeding ground and recruitment center for militant Islamists, such as Osama bin-Laden's al-Qaida and its many affiliates.

While resolving the crisis in the Western Sahara might not be given high priority in Washington, it must be remembered that it is also part and parcel of the war against terrorism.

[usmiste]

Envoyé par girondin Mais sachez une chose : l enjeu reel derriere tout ca, c est le petrole. En effet, soyez logique un peu: l Algerie a du gaz et du petrol sous ses terres, mais ce gaz et ce petrole s arreterait-il COMME PAR HASARD a la frontiere avec le Maroc et le Sahara ? ca n a pas de sens !!! ca ve dire k il y a du gaz et du petrole inexploite dans les provinces du Sud et voila l enjeu ! les officiels le savent en tous cas...

A titre informatif, les champs de petrole et de gas en Algerie se situe TOUS dans le Sud-Ouest du pays dans l'Erg Occidental. C'est donc a l'Ouest de l'axe Alger-Tamanrasset (axe Nord Sud qui coupe le pas en 2) que se situe les champs d'hydrocarbures donc a au moins 1000km du Maroc, et ca va jusqu'a la frontiere Lybienne. Dans la moitie Sud-Est, plus pres du Maroc il existe d'enormes gisements miniers par contre: fer, phosphate, etc... qui n'ont pas encore ete exploites d'ailleurs.

Pour revenir au petrole dans le Sahara (Occidental/Marocain): il en existe certainement. La question n'est pas si il en existe, mais a quelle profondeures? Si c'est a 3000 metres sous terre comme en Algerie, c'est exploitable. Si c'est a 5000 metres sous terre + 2000 metres sous mer (offshore) ca devient plus complique technologiquement a prospecter et exploiter, et donc plus cher et moins rentable.

[LaPaz]

Envoyé par usmiste A titre informatif, les champs de petrole et de gas en Algerie se situe TOUS dans le Sud-Ouest du pays dans l'Erg Occidental. C'est donc a l'Ouest de l'axe Alger-Tamanrasset (axe Nord Sud qui coupe le pas en 2) que se situe les champs d'hydrocarbures donc a au moins 1000km du Maroc, et ca va jusqu'a la frontiere Lybienne. Dans la moitie Sud-Est, plus pres du Maroc il existe d'enormes gisements miniers par contre: fer, phosphate, etc... qui n'ont pas encore ete exploites d'ailleurs. Pour revenir au petrole dans le Sahara (Occidental/Marocain): il en existe certainement. La question n'est pas si il en existe, mais a quelle profondeures? Si c'est a 3000 metres sous terre comme en Algerie, c'est exploitable. Si c'est a 5000 metres sous terre + 2000 metres sous mer (offshore) ca devient plus complique technologiquement a prospecter et exploiter, et donc plus cher et moins rentable.

Excuse-moi, Usmiste...J'ai l'impression que tu confonds Est et Ouest