Nous sommes des descendants d'un père, Abraham

[AlHemar]

Envoyé par dalandau So tell us who are the Israelites if not the Jews!!! by the way the Quran says Israelites are Jews (read above and go read the Quran) IN ARRABIC You are a sinner

no! the Quran spoke about the sons of Israel and spoke about the jew. the jew were always linked to the Torah and the Quran said they submitted to Allah (those who followed Moses) which mean they were moslems. the sons of Israel in Quran was reserved for the tribes made from the sons of Israel like I told you above.

the main important thing in QUran, is the Quran speaks good only about the believers from the jew and the sons of Israel tribes but call the others kuffar. like the one who built the calf when Moses left to the mountain, he was called kiffer.

the Quran has nothing to do with your ethnicity and it is not sent to special tribe. unlike the torah was sent to the sons of Isreal and a both the Quran and the Torah contain words that prove the message of Moses and Jesus were only for the sons of Israel tribes(which has no contradiction with the prayer of Abrahim)

[dalandau]

Dont forget:

The Qur'an forbids making a division between the prophets before or after the Exile (Qur'an, "The Cow", chapter 2:130,208, "The House of Imram", chapter 3:78)


"We gave the Children of Israel the Book, the Judgment and the Prophethood, and We provided them with good things, and We preferred them above all beings" [Qur'an, "Hobbling" , chapter 45:15].

"We sent not any before thee except men to whom we revealed: Question the People of the Remembrance [Children fo Israel], if it should be that you do not know -- with the clear signs, and the Psalms, and We have sent down to thee Remembrance [Qur'an] that thou [Muslims] mayest make clear to mankind what was sent down to them [Israelites]" [Qur'an, "The Bee", chapter 16:45].

"Surely, We sent down the Torah , wherein is guidance and light. Thereby, the prophets, who had surrendered themselves, gave judgment for those of Jewry, as did the masters and the rabbis, following such portions of God's Book as they were given to keep and bear witness to" [Qur'an, "The Table", chapter 5:48].


The claim that the Hebrew Tanah Is forgery is against god:

"The Qur'an could not have been forged apart from G-d, but it is a confirmation of what was before it, and a distinguishing of the Book [Tanach] wherein is no doubt, from the Lord of all Being" (Qur'an, "Jonah", chapter 10:38. Also see "The Table", chapter 5:52; "Sand Dunes", chapter 46:11 "The Cow", chapter 2:172. Additional Qur'anic acceptance of the Tanach is given in "Night Journey", chapter 17:3; "Prostration", chapter 32:23; "The Believer", chapter 23:56. These references to "the Book" always refer to the Tanach in its original Hebrew, not to translations which are often unreliable).

"We have sent down the revelation, and we will surely preserve it." (15:9)
"Indeed, this is an honorable scripture. Falsehood could never enter it in the past, present, or future; a revelation from the most wise, the most praised." (41:4142)

[dalandau]

Muslim means submitted Jews are Muslim(submitted)


We, the children of Abraham, should unite in peace and build up a culture of our own, instead of fighting each other and feeding the war industries of foreign nations.
We are related by faith and by blood. The different rituals we observe should not lead to enmity between us. Quite the contrary.

The Qur'an says:

"If God had willed, he would have made you one nation, but he may try you in what has come to you. So be ye forward in good works, unto God shall you return altogether, and He will tell you of that whereon you were at variance" [Qur'an, "The Table", chapter 5:53; "The Bee", chapter 16:95].
It is from God that we follow different rituals:

"We have appointed for every nation a holy rite that they shall perform" [Qur'an, "The Pilgrimage", chapter 22:66].

The Qur'an even distinguishes between Abraham, Isaac and Jacob on the one hand, and Ishmael on the other:

"Remember also our servants Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, men of might they and of vision. Assuredly, We purified them with a quality most pure, the remembrance of the Abode, and in our sight, they are of the chosen, the excellent. Remember also our servants Ishmael, Elisha and Dhool Kifl, each is among the excellent" [Qur'an, "The Zad", chapter 38:45-48].

According to these verses, the three Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are described as purified, chosen and excellent, while Ishmael, although being counted among the excellent, is not mentioned as chosen. The chosen-ness of the three Patriarchs has to do with the Land Covenant which the Lord of All Beings made with them [Tanach, Genesis 15:18, 17:4-8, 26:4, 35:11-12].

While every nation has its own distinctive characteristics, it is exactly this Land Covenant which molds the People of Israel into something distinctive, unique in history.

The Qur'an stresses this repeatedly:

"[Allah] gave you such as He had not given to any being. O My People [the Israelites], enter the Holy Land [Land of Israel] which God has prescribed for you..." [Qur'an, "The Table", chapter 5:24]. "Children of Israel, remember...that I have preferred you above all beings" [Qur'an, "The Cow", chapter 2:44].

Note also the distinction between the calls and levels of Abraham's son Isaac, grandson Jacob and son Ishmael:

"We gave him [Abraham] Isaac and Jacob, and each We made a prophet, and We gave them our mercy, and We appointed to them a tongue of truthfulness, sublime...And Ishmael...was true to his promise, and he was a messenger, a prophet. He bade his people to pray and to give alms, and he was pleasing to his Lord" [Qur'an, "Mary", chapter 19:50-56; "The Prophets", chapter 21:72,85].
The Qur'an does say that Abraham "was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but a Muslim of pure faith" (Qur'an, "The House of Imram", chapter 3:60). He "named you Muslim(submitted) aforetime" [Qur'an, "The Pilgrimage", chapter 22:77-78] and admonished you to "follow the creed of Abraham, a man of pure faith and no idolater" [Qur'an, "The Bee", chapter 16:124].
The expression "He named you Muslim aforetime" shows that the term "Muslim" is here applied in its etymological sense, meaning "one who submits to God", a God Fearer who followed the universal faith of Noah (Genesis 9) given to all mankind, rather than the member of a specific later religion.

It is in this sense that the Qur'an speaks of the prophets of Israel as those who have surrendered to God; i.e., as Muslims (God Fearers) [Qur'an, "The Table", chapter 5:48], despite the fact that they and the People of Israel were commanded to observe ordinances and rites different from those of the descendants of Ishmael.
An example of such differences is the Sabbath. This day of rest and sanctification is for the Children of Israel also a sign of God's covenant with them [Tanach, Exodus 31:13-17].
The Qur'an confirms this and even ridicules Jews who do not observe the Sabbath as "apes" [Qur'an, "The Cow", chapter 2:63].
"Praise the Lord, all you nations, praise him, all you people, for his grace did prevail over us, and the Lord's truth is for ever. Praise you the Lord" [Tanach, Psalm 117].
"Have you considered? If it be from God, and you disbelieve in it, and a witness from among the Children of Israel bears witness to its like, and believes, and you wax proud, God guides not the people of the evildoers" [Qur'an, "Sand Dunes", chapter 46:8-9].

The Qur'an says:

"God is our Lord and your Lord. We have our deeds, and you have your deeds, there is no argument between us and you. God shall bring us together, and unto Him is our homecoming" [Qur'an, "The Counsel", chapter 42:14].Repentance is always possible. According to the Qur'an, even Pharaoh, when he saw his army drowning, came to his senses and admitted:

"I believe that there is no God but He in whom the Children of Israel believe. I am of those that surrender(muslim)" [Qur'an, "Jonah" chapter 10-90].

[AlHemar]

Envoyé par dalandau Dont forget: The Qur'an forbids making a division between the prophets before or after the Exile (Qur'an, "The Cow", chapter 2:130,208, "The House of Imram", chapter 3:78) "We gave the Children of Israel the Book, the Judgment and the Prophethood, and We provided them with good things, and We preferred them above all beings" [Qur'an, "Hobbling" , chapter 45:15]. "We sent not any before thee except men to whom we revealed: Question the People of the Remembrance [Children fo Israel], if it should be that you do not know -- with the clear signs, and the Psalms, and We have sent down to thee Remembrance [Qur'an] that thou [Muslims] mayest make clear to mankind what was sent down to them [Israelites]" [Qur'an, "The Bee", chapter 16:45]. "Surely, We sent down the Torah , wherein is guidance and light. Thereby, the prophets, who had surrendered themselves, gave judgment for those of Jewry, as did the masters and the rabbis, following such portions of God's Book as they were given to keep and bear witness to" [Qur'an, "The Table", chapter 5:48]. The claim that the Hebrew Tanah Is forgery is against god: "The Qur'an could not have been forged apart from G-d, but it is a confirmation of what was before it, and a distinguishing of the Book [Tanach] wherein is no doubt, from the Lord of all Being" (Qur'an, "Jonah", chapter 10:38. Also see "The Table", chapter 5:52; "Sand Dunes", chapter 46:11 "The Cow", chapter 2:172. Additional Qur'anic acceptance of the Tanach is given in "Night Journey", chapter 17:3; "Prostration", chapter 32:23; "The Believer", chapter 23:56. These references to "the Book" always refer to the Tanach in its original Hebrew, not to translations which are often unreliable). "We have sent down the revelation, and we will surely preserve it." (15:9) "Indeed, this is an honorable scripture. Falsehood could never enter it in the past, present, or future; a revelation from the most wise, the most praised." (41:4142)

your problem is you read inside the books and you think it is about you. when you read in the past, it is about the past, it has nothing to do with you. you can claim to be jewish all the day and all the night but you are not jewish just because you claim it. and you are not related to the stories of the past just for taking one of the names of the past.

تِلْكَ أُمَّةٌ قَدْ خَلَتْ لَهَا مَا كَسَبَتْ وَلَكُمْ مَا كَسَبْتُمْ وَلَا تُسْأَلُونَ عَمَّا كَانُوا يَعْمَلُونَ
وَقَالُوا كُونُوا هُودًا أَوْ نَصَارَى تَهْتَدُوا قُلْ بَلْ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

قُولُوا آمَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَمَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَاقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالْأَسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَى وَعِيسَى وَمَا أُوتِيَ النَّبِيُّونَ مِنْ رَبِّهِمْ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ
فَإِنْ آمَنُوا بِمِثْلِ مَا آمَنْتُمْ بِهِ فَقَدِ اهْتَدَوْا وَإِنْ تَوَلَّوْا فَإِنَّمَا هُمْ فِي شِقَاقٍ فَسَيَكْفِيكَهُمُ اللَّهُ وَهُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ

2:134 That was a people that hath passed away. They shall reap the fruit of what they did, and ye of what ye do! Of their merits there is no question in your case!

2:135 They say: "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation)." Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah."

2:136 Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

2:137 So if they believe as ye believe, they are indeed on the right path; but if they turn back, it is they who are in schism; but Allah will suffice thee as against them, and He is the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing.

remember you are not living 6000 years and you are not the one who corrupted the books! it is them. you just happen to be born from the people who think the books corrupted are true.

[dalandau]

He is speaking about the christian pagan NT (christians were jews)

muslim: means god fearer,submitted to one and only god

read my post!!! There are prophecies to

You should read yechezkiel 34-end here with hebrew next to it
Do not read the pagan christian bible translation!!!

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1201.htm

[dalandau]

Ezekiel Chapter 35
1 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying: 2 'Son of man, set thy face against mount Seir, and prophesy against it, 3 and say unto it: Thus saith the Lord GOD: Behold, I am against thee, O mount Seir, and I will stretch out My hand against thee, and I will make thee most desolate. 4 I will lay thy cities waste, and thou shalt be desolate; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD.

5 Because thou hast had a hatred of old, and hast hurled the children of Israel unto the power of the sword in the time of their calamity, in the time of the iniquity of the end;

6 therefore, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, I will prepare thee unto blood, and blood shall pursue thee; surely thou hast hated thine own blood, therefore blood shall pursue thee. 7 Thus will I make mount Seir most desolate, and cut off from it him that passeth through and him that returneth. 8 And I will fill his mountains with his slain; in thy hills and in thy valleys and in all thy streams shall they fall that are slain with the sword. 9 I will make thee perpetual desolations, and thy cities shall not return; and ye shall know that I am the LORD. 10 Because thou hast said: These two nations and these two countries shall be mine, and we will possess it; whereas the LORD was there; 11 therefore, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, I will do according to thine anger and according to thine envy, which thou hast used out of thy hatred against them; and I will make Myself known among them, when I shall judge thee. 12 And thou shalt know that I the LORD have heard all thy blasphemies which thou hast spoken against the mountains of Israel, saying: They are laid desolate, they are given us to devour. 13 And ye have magnified yourselves against Me with your mouth, and have multiplied your words against Me; I have heard it. 14 Thus saith the Lord GOD: When the whole earth rejoiceth, I will make thee desolate.

15 As thou didst rejoice over the inheritance of the house of Israel, because it was desolate, so will I do unto thee; thou shalt be desolate, O mount Seir, and all Edom, even all of it; and they shall know that I am the LORD.

[dalandau]

2:134 That was a people that hath passed away. They shall reap the fruit of what they did, and ye of what ye do! Of their merits there is no question in your case!

dont forget the OF WHAT YOU DO in the present future!! and then OF WHAT THEY DID (jews that started idolating at the time the 2nd temple was destroyd ) IT CLEARLY IS IN THE PAST!!!!
and then OF THEIR MERITS THERE IS NO QUESTION IN YOUR CASE

PRESENT FUTURE

2:135 They say: "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation)." Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah."

YES YOU HAVE YOUR RITES AND ISRAELITES HAVE THEIRS see my post

THE ANSWER GOES TO PAGANCHRISTIANS


2:136 Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

SO START READING THE TANACH WHEN YOU DONT UNDERSTAND SOMETHING INSTEAD OF GOING TO WAHHABITES

2:137 So if they believe as ye believe, they are indeed on the right path; but if they turn back, it is they who are in schism; but Allah will suffice thee as against them, and He is the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing.

SO IF JEWS BELIEVE AS YE BELIEVE THAT (THERE IS ONLY ONE G*D) THEY ARE INDEED ON THE RIGHT PATH

تِلْكَ أُمَّةٌ قَدْ خَلَتْ لَهَا مَا كَسَبَتْ وَلَكُمْ مَا كَسَبْتُمْ وَلَا تُسْأَلُونَ عَمَّا كَانُوا يَعْمَلُونَ
وَقَالُوا كُونُوا هُودًا أَوْ نَصَارَى تَهْتَدُوا قُلْ بَلْ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

قُولُوا آمَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَمَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَاقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالْأَسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَى وَعِيسَى وَمَا أُوتِيَ النَّبِيُّونَ مِنْ رَبِّهِمْ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ
فَإِنْ آمَنُوا بِمِثْلِ مَا آمَنْتُمْ بِهِ فَقَدِ اهْتَدَوْا وَإِنْ تَوَلَّوْا فَإِنَّمَا هُمْ فِي شِقَاقٍ فَسَيَكْفِيكَهُمُ اللَّهُ وَهُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ

[dalandau]

Carefull!!!Ongoing hostilities against Israel is part of the war of "Gog and Magog"



"There is a ban upon a city [Jerusalem] that We have destroyed. They [the Jews] shall not return [to the Land of Israel] till when Gog and Magog are unloosed, and they slide down out of every slope, and nigh has drawn the true promise, and behold, the eyes of the unbelievers staring. 'Alas for us! We were heedless of this. Nay, we are evildoers" [Qur'an, "The Prophets", chapter 21:96, 97].

Who or what prompts you to enlist in the hordes of Gog and Magog?

In this context the Qur'an warns:

"Upon this day when their faces are turned about in the fire, they shall say: 'Ah, would we had obeyed God and the messenger!' They shall say: 'Our Lord, we obeyed the chiefs and great ones, and they led us astray from the way. Our Lord, give them chastisement twofold, and curse them with a mighty curse" [ Qur'an, "The Confederates", chapter 33:66].

The next verse admonishes:

"O believers, be not as those who hurt Moses(Israelite), but God declared him quit of what they said, and he was high honored with God" [Qur'an, "The Confederates", chapter 33:68].

[dalandau]

Salam/shalom/peace/paix

[dalandau]

IMAM PALAZZI. L'islam contemporain vit une tragédie. Il a été kidnappé par une hérésie née voici trois siècles dans le désert du Nejd, le wahhabisme, aujourd'hui au pouvoir en Arabie Saoudite, et par ses nombreuses variantes, des Frères musulmans (al-Ikhwan al-Muslimun) aux confréries dites "islamistes". L'islam connaît sans doute actuellement un essor numérique et géographique. Mais il subit en même temps une profonde décadence interne, au moins dans son c ur historique : le monde arabe et les autres pays du Proche et du Moyen-Orient. Son salut viendra peut-être de la périphérie : des islams d'Afrique ou d'Extrême-Orient, ou d'un nouvel islam en gestation dans les pays pluralistes et multiculturels d'Occident, en Europe et en Amérique.


En quoi le wahhabisme et l'islamisme sont-ils hérétiques ?


Lors de leur apparition, les wahhabites ont été rejetés avec horreur par la quasi-totalité des autorités musulmanes, et combattus par les pouvoirs musulmans légitimes, notamment le sultan-calife ottoman. En raison de leur doctrine : ils rejetaient la Sunna, la tradition séculaire de l'islam, au profit d'une lecture littéraliste du Coran. Et en raison de leurs actes : ils se livraient, sous couvert de religion, aux pires excès, du saccage des Lieux Saints, notamment à La Mecque et Médine, au massacre de populations musulmanes entières, femmes et enfants compris. Ce rejet du wahhabisme a persisté jusqu'à notre époque, tant qu'il s'est trouvé des chefs religieux capables de s'exprimer à ce sujet. Les clones modernes du wahhabisme, qu'il s'agisse des Frères musulmans, du néo-wahhabiste Oussama Ben Laden, des taliban, ou des autres réseaux dits islamistes ne se différencient du wahhabisme proprement dit qu'en formulant un projet politique de domination mondiale, analogue sur bien des points au fascisme et au communisme, et en mettant en place, comme leurs modèles totalitaires européens, des réseaux hiérarchisés de militants professionnels.

Comment expliquer que ces hérétiques aient pris le pouvoir dans une partie importante du monde musulman ?
Ils se sont imposés par la force et la terreur : soit en renversant les pouvoirs musulmans établis, soit en les faisant chanter. Au fur et à mesure qu'ils consolidaient leur emprise sur des pays musulmans, leurs ressources financières s'accroissaient, et donc leur capacité de subvertir d'autres pays ou communautés. Je dois ajouter que les Occidentaux portent également leur part de responsabilité. Ignorants en matière islamique, les Britanniques et plus tard les Américains ont cru que les wahhabites et les islamistes n'étaient que des musulmans conservateurs, " intégristes ", et les ont soutenus avec l'idée de s'appuyer sur eux en retour. En 1991, l'Amérique a fait la guerre du Golfe pour sauver l'indépendance du Koweit et à plus long terme celle de l'Arabie Saoudite. L'émir du Koweit les a remerciés en accordant un énorme soutien financier au mouvement islamiste et terroriste Hamas, puis en participant à la création, à Lugano, du Nada Management Group, c'est-à-dire du holding de Ben Laden. J'espère que les événements du 11 septembre ont ouvert les yeux des dirigeants de Washington.

Où peut-on encore trouver des musulmans orthodoxes ?
Dans la plupart des pays arabes, l'islam sunnite orthodoxe a été remplacé par un mélange instable d'islamisme et de nationalisme arabe non-religieux. Dans d'autres pays, comme le Pakistan, il a été marginalisé par le wahhabisme. En ce XVe siècle de l'Hégire, il survit surtout dans des pays périphériques, en Afrique noire, en Inde, en Indonésie, en Malaisie, dans l'ancienne Asie centrale soviétique. Le critère, c'est l'affiliation des Docteurs de la Loi coranique, des oulémas. Là où les wahhabites et les islamistes sont l'exception plutôt que la règle, l'islam est encore authentique. Là où ils sont la règle plutôt que l'exception, l'hérésie a gagné.

Une bataille cruciale est en train de se dérouler à cet égard. Elle concerne les matrices intellectuelles de l'islam, les séminaires théologiques. Dans le monde arabe, en Europe et en Amérique du Nord, ils sont aujourd'hui financés et donc actuellement contrôlés par les Saoudiens d'abord, par les Frères musulmans ou d'autres confréries islamistes ensuite. Avec toutes les conséquences que cela implique à moyen ou à long terme.

La guerre sainte est-elle la finalité de l'islam ?
La "guerre sainte", comme vous dites, n'est pas un concept musulman, mais chrétien, dont les Croisades ont été l'application la plus célèbre. L'islam parle seulement de "djihad", c'est-à-dire d'effort vers le bien. La littérature islamique classique range dans cette catégorie des actes aussi différents que le pèlerinage à La Mecque pour les femmes, la nécessité de prendre soin de ses parents âgés ou le perfectionnement éthique. C'est seulement par extension que le "djihad" recouvre également la guerre juste. Mais cette guerre, à son tour, n'est pas nécessairement menée dans le seul intérêt des musulmans : selon le Coran, elle peut être décrétée "pour protéger les mosquées, les synagogues, les églises et les monastères", ou même en vue de repousser un envahisseur, même musulman. Dans le langage politique d'aujourd'hui, elle peut parfaitement s'appliquer à une guerre menée pour la défense des droits de l'homme.